Other Places to Mountain Bike in Arizona
There are many trails in Arizona worth trying. The rating
system is explained on the White
Mountains page. Some of my favorites include:
Phoenix Area Rides
- Cave Creek Park, Cave Creek
- a relatively fun place to bike. Until
recently, the trails were unbelievably rocky. Now they
are only incredibly rocky. There has been a lot of trail
rebuilding, so get a map at the park entrance to be sure you
have the latest and most accurate trail information.
There are many trails leading from the park, especially
to the North, but most cross private property and could
be closed as building advances toward the park. Cave
Creek Park is on the far North end of Phoenix near,
strangely enough, Cave Creek. This is where I did a major
face
plant (it's cool! A helicopter is involved!).
- McDowell Mountain
Park, Maricopa County
and
- At the park is a very
good trail and an awesome "competitive track".
This was the venue for the Cactus Cup (alas, it is no
more). The park is a few miles north of Fountain Hills
along the Verde River.
- Pima and Dynamite, Scottsdale
- Actually, this is a series of motocross
trails through the desert, but they are pretty good!
There are over 100 miles of trail and a little something
for every skill level. Until recently, this was
"undiscovered country". Nowadays, good luck
finding a place to park on Saturday or Sunday mornings!
Oh, well. It's better to be popular than to be developed
(a fate soon to befall this area). In fact, "State
Trust Land - No Trespassing" signs have been
recently placed at the trail heads. Technically, that
means you need either 1) a permit that nobody seems to
know how to get, or 2) a valid Arizona hunting license.
Or, you can do as everyone else does - just ride it! Once
you get to the Tonto National Forest, it is all public
land. Now that I think of it, "State Trust
Land" is public too!
Here is a mini photo album of that area! To get
there go to, well, Pima and Dynamite. Follow the power
lines to the North (either set). You will find many
options on the 1000' climb toward Bartlett Lake Road. As
a general rule, the farther North and East you go, the
more difficult the trails become. It's hard to get too
lost because the power lines are visible for miles. There
are OK maps of the area available at most bike shops.
Keep in mind that the maps are NOT TO SCALE (not even
close), but you'll get the idea.
One good thing happened in 1999. A major section of the
State Trust Land has been turned over to the McDowell
Mountain Preserve. I don't know what the future holds,
but "Preserve" sounds much better than
"Golf Course"! Unfortunately, only some of the
eastern sections of area are under protection of the
preserve.
Fall 2000 update: "Preserve" means NO
Motor Vehicles, Horses, or, (gasp!) BICYCLES!
Major
areas have been closed off!
- Pinnacle Peak, Scottsdale
- A moment of silence please. This great
former home of the Cactus Cup is no longer. It used to be
a major-fun single track through the rocks. Now it's,
gasp, a golf course! Ah, the price of
"progress". Ride Pima and Dynamite for all it's
worth before it, too, is "improved"! No sense
telling you how to get there because "there" no
longer is.
- South Mountain Park, Phoenix
- This is part of the Phoenix
Mountains Preserve with excellent trails. There is
more elevation gain (about 1000 feet), so the workout is
better. The view is OK too, if you like looking down on a
city (not my bag). Don't make the mistake I did and ride
this in 100 degree+ temperatures! I'm used to riding in
the heat, but we all ran out of water! We were glad a
park ranger had some water so we could make it back to
the vehicles before we shriveled (but it's a dry heat).
You can't miss the mountain - it's the one will all the
towers on it straight south of Phoenix. Just don't hang
out at the towers if you still want kids!
A good loop to do on a cool day is to climb the National
Trail (the Mormon Loop is a little easier) to the top.
Take the China Wall down, and I mean really down, to the
Desert Classic trail. Total loop is about 13 miles. Make
your way to the East end for the best trail access.
- South of Carefree Highway (AKA "Union
Hills"), Phoenix
- Somehow, this
area made it into some trail guides. Use caution - the guides are very inaccurate!
I've run into many lost riders. There are two
sorta-marked loops, one about 13 miles and the other
about 18 miles, that are 99% easy two-track. Except for a
few short climbs and some rocky and/or sandy sections, it
is smooth cruisin'. This area has many back roads and
jeep trails that offer an afternoon of exploring in
pristine (for the time being) Sonoran desert. To follow
the "trail", watch for various colored ribbons
tied to trees and cactus. The area is bounded by Carefree
Highway (of Gordon Lightfoot fame) on the north,
Interstate 17 on the west, Cave Buttes Dam on the south,
and Cave Creek Road on the east enclosing over 100 square
miles of open desert. The area around the dam is posted
No Trespassing, so use judgment. If you are offered a
"permit", keep in mind it does NOT cover the
dam area. If Officer Friendly stops you, just play dumb -
it works for me. As far as I know, no one has ever
received a ticket for being around the dam. Playing on
the foothills in the area adds a little excitement on an
otherwise easy ride. Here's my put at keeping you on the
right trail:
1. The best access for the long loop is from the Circle-K
on the corner of Cave Creek and Tatum roads. Just head
out behind the store into the open desert and watch for
the ribbons. The trail heads southwest, paralleling Cave
Creek Road for a short distance before heading into the
desert. A few miles in, the trail dumps out on Jomax
Road. This is a blacktop road but is closed to public
access. Follow the road to the west and, ultimately, Cave
Creek Dam. Unless there has been unusually hard rains,
the dam is dry. Pick your way to the far side and look
for a road the parallels the foothills. Follow the trail
toward the north. About a mile north of the dam there is
an access road. The short loop joins up at this point.
Just cross the road and head toward the northeast.
Eventually, you will come to a fence line. This is where
the short loop meets the trail again. Go through the
fence (please keep gate closed) and follow the markers to
Cave Creek wash. At this point, the trail heads up the
cliff on the other side of the wash and follows the power
line road to 40th street. Stay on the west (desert) side
of the fence and head back south. After crossing a few
dips, follow the fence line toward the east and back to
Circle-K.
2. Access to the short loop (my favorite) is best at 40th
street and Lone Mountain Road. Just north of the
intersection is a gate under the power lines. Follow the
power line road (same as long loop) to Cave Creek Wash.
Cross the wash and head to the south. About 2.5 miles
down the trial, there is another fence line. Cross
through (closing the gate behind you) and take your pick
- straight west for clockwise along the long loop trail,
or north along the fence line - your choice. Assuming
counter-clockwise, follow the trail as it meanders
through the desert, eventually heading toward the west.
At a small flood-control dam, head south on the access
road. At the second wash crossing (sandy depression in
road) look for the long loop trail crossing the road.
Head left (east) and follow the trail back.
- Trail 100, Phoenix
- also known as the
Charles M. Christiansen Memorial Trail and is part of the
Phoenix
Mountains Preserve. This is a pretty good trail for
being in the middle of a city. It stretches for about 10
miles one way and you never have to worry about crossing
a road - all crossings are through tunnels! The biggest
problem is the foot and horse traffic. I see the day
coming when there will be a showdown. Some hikers have
deliberately put boulders in the middle of the path to
slow down the bikers! Of course, there are plenty of
jerks on two wheels that don't help matters any. There
are several access points - North Mountain Park, Sqaw
Peak City Park, 7th Street, Tatum, and more. Ask any of
the local bike or running shops what would work best for
you. My favorite out-and-back when I don't have much time
is to go from the 7th Street trailhead to Dreamy Draw
Park. Check out the maps of Squaw Peak (AKA Piestewa Peak) and North Mountain Park area.
- Usery Mountain Park
- This park has a short-and-easy loop
that is "made for bikes" but is really open to
everyone (like nearly every other trail in the state).
The Blevins trail is only about 4 miles around, but the
scenery is quite nice. There is another loop, the Pass
Mountain Trail, that is a killer - literally. One
mountain biker lost his life after becoming lost in the
summer heat. The county decided the trail was "not
suited for bicycles" and closed the trail to bikes.
There are, however, several sets of tire tracks leading
onto the trail at any given time. Obviously, just walking
the bikes! This park is about 15 miles North-East of Mesa
on Usery Mountain Pass Road.
- White Tank Mountain Regional Park
- Much like McDowell Mountain Park,
there are many good (but very rugged) trails and another
"competitive track"! The Sonoran Loop Bicycle
Track is 5.9 miles of made-for-bikes trails, mostly easy,
but with one "technical" loop. Wow! Two
made-for-bikes-only trails in one county. What is Arizona
coming to? Just head West on Olive (or "Dunlap"
if you are East enough) about 15 miles west of Phoenix.
See Maricopa
County Parks and Recreational Department for more trail
opportunities.
Other Arizona Rides
- Bartlett Lake and Horseshoe Dam, Maricopa County
- Two-track, rolling, and heavily rutted 4wd
roads with great views best describe this ride. The basic
loop is 7 miles, and the elevation is from about 3200' to
4100' which makes for a good climb. Best yet is the way
back - fast downhill! But watch out for those ruts! Some
are big enough to swallow you and your bike! The views
include a panorama of Kentuck Mountain to the North (you
are riding the foothills), the Mazatzal Mountains to the
East beyond the Verde River Valley, the Superstition
Mountains to the Southeast, and Four Peaks to the West
(it will be obvious). The best place to start is at
Bartlett Lake Road about a mile before the Horseshoe Dam
Road turnoff. Look for trail 2070 to the North. There are
many options in this area, so keep an eye on landmarks so
you can find your way back.
If you are in the mood for extreme hike-a-bike, keep
heading North until you crest a small mountain (the only
trail to the North). There is a single-track that is
about 5 miles long and is very (I mean VERY) steep. The
views are intense, so the hiking sections (about 75% of
the trail!) are worth it. Head back up Horseshoe Dam road
when (if?) you eventually make it back out.
Here is a mini photo album of
that ride!
- Bell Rock Scenic Pathway Trail, Sedona
- Some cool views and trails, but way too
many hikers! The main trial is definitely "urban
trail", so it gets a high volume of tourists. The
trail makes a good connector between the Submarine Rock
trail and the Cathedral Rock trail (there's a theme here
- lots of highly identifiable rocks!). Quite frankly, if
you can't find this trail, you are not even close to
Sedona! This trail is about as easy as it gets, so if you
are with a less-experienced biker, you might consider
this trial.
- Broken Arrow/Little Horse Trails (Submarine Rock &
Chicken Point), Sedona
- This 10-mile loop has slickrock, technical
single track, fast single track, super views, and lots of
very red earth! I rode this one once in the rain - big
mistake!! The red stuff makes a pretty good dye! The
trails are fun and the scenery is fantastic. On highway
179 just past mile post 312, look for the "Broken
Arrow" sign (Morgan Road). There is parking just
after the road turns to dirt. A short distance down the
dirt road is a parking area. Across from the parking area
starts some of the best single track anywhere. Don't
forget the side trip to Submarine Rock (trail is marked)
for a little taste of Moab. Without the side trip, the
loop is closer to 7.5 miles. To the left of Chicken Point
(where the pink jeeps can't go any further), head down
the kick-butt single track (Little Horse Trail) to hook
up with the Bell Rock trail. Decision time - left (south)
to Bell Rock, right (north) to Mystic Hills. The trail
passes the Little Horse trailhead and heads into a
residential area, but the streets have been well-marked
with trail signs. Head up to the Mystic Hills Trail (or
Misty Chills trail - another ride, another sprinkle of
rain) and enjoy the way-fast single track back to Morgan
Road.
- Boulder Trail, Payson
- 9.5+ miles
starting from downtown Payson. This trail is a sweet,
rolling, twisting, great-views, awesome, fun,
single-track and road ride. What keeps it from getting a
solid 3-bike rating is that the single-track part (which
probably some of the best anywhere) is only 3.5 miles out
of the 9.5 miles of trail. There are other ATC trails in
the area that can make the trail a bit longer. The rest
is mostly gravel road, and it is an uphill climb back
from the end of the single-track. Creek crossings,
switchback climbs, open views, and deep forest are all
part of this trail. Stop in at Manzateta Cyclery for maps
and descriptions of this and other trails in the Payson
area.
- Cathedral Rock Trail, Sedona
- This is a great 12 mile loop through
spectacular scenery. There is even a chance to get wet at
Buddha Beach along Oak Creek. The only thing keeping this
from the coveted 3-bike rating is the 3.5 miles of
blacktop necessary to make this a real loop. Stop in at
Sedona Bike and Bean in Oak Creek Village for directions.
It's right on the loop so you won't be going out of your
way!
For a good 6-mile shorter trip (and bump the rating to 3
bikes), from the Little Horse trailhead on down to the
Little Horse trailhead. Follow the trail to Hwy 179 and,
very carefully, cross over to Back 'O Beyond road. Follow
this road down to the Cathedral Rock trailhead. After a
short climb up the hill is a "T". Right is a
short trip to Buddha Beach, left will bring you back to
the Bell Rock trail. This time, the trail goes under 179
so you don't need to dodge cars. Take a left (north) at
the "T" on Bell Rock trail and head on back to
the Broken Arrow/Little Horse/Mystic Hills loop.
- Granite Basin Loops, Prescott
- There are somewhere between 3 and 103
miles of trails in the area, depending on who you ask.
But if you take any of the shorter loops in the Granite
Basin Recreation Area, you can't go wrong! There are
sections of buff downhill, twisting climbs and descents,
and a little technical thrown in now an then for good
measure. Many of the trails are really beginner-level,
but the further you get away from the "core",
the better the trails become. My favorite quick
eight-mile loop is, from the Metate Trailhead take 261,
349, 351, 346, 346, 348, 352, and finally 345. Got it?
Might be a good idea to get a map. This area costs $2 to
park, but it's worth it. To get there, go northwest from
downtown Prescott on Montezuma Street. This turns in to
Iron Springs Road eventually (and a couple of other names
if I'm not mistaken - just don't make any turns off of
the main road). About 5 miles out of town you'll see the
Granite Basin Recreation Area turnoff. Park at either the
Cayuse Equestrian area or Metate Trailhead. Keep in mind
that Granite Mountain (can't miss it) is a designated
wilderness area and you know what isn't allowed in there!
- Highline Trail National Recreation Trail, Payson
- 51 miles of twisting single track. Lots
of good technical sections, some hike-a-bike (sometimes a
lot), but mostly moderate going. This one has a bazilion
side trails and entry points. We did the eastern-most 10
miles, dropping off of the Mogollon Rim (about 1600')
just to make a loop of it. Just head to Payson, AZ, and
ask where the best part of the trail is. My favorite is
off of 260 Trailhead which is off of Highway 260 heading
East toward Heber.
- Lake Pleasant to Crown King, Maricopa County
- A road? You've got to be kidding! A ROAD!
Yup. And a pretty good bike ride, too. This one's a
decent once-a-year-is-enough hill climb from the desert
(at Lake Pleasant) to the pines (at Crown King). The road
is a 4-wheel drive paradise (a past life), is very steep
in spots, and will give you a good work-out. It stretches
over 16 miles one-way (depending on where you start), and
has over 6000' of elevation gain. Just head toward the
main park entrance (don't turn in and pay the entrance
fee) and keep going North. A good Prescott National
Forest map would help.
- Mt. Eldon, Flagstaff
- This is a very popular trail - lots of
bike traffic. However, it is a very nice place to ride.
There is a lot of wooded single track, and some pretty
decent downhill runs! (after the uphill climb, of course!
Cheaters who ride their cars to the top are losers!). The
elevation ranges from 7200' to 9200', so bring your
lungs! There are many good trails on the mountain, so
check around. Mt. Eldon is the little mountain in front
of the big one North of Flagstaff, AZ.
My personal favorite is Little Bear Trail. Taken off of
the Sunset Trail, this sweet little gem is 3.5 miles of
sweet singletrack. The trail is cut into the side of the
mountain (way steep - the mountain, not the trail). There
is an elevation loss of about 1000' so you can guess just
how much fun this trail is!
- Robber's Roost, Sedona
- Another mostly
road ride, but the views make it all worth while! This is
a 20+ mile trip through the Western edge of the good
rides in Sedona. This one is rated "Easy as
Pie" by Cosmic Ray.
Here is a mini photo album of that
ride!
- Seven Springs (Trail 4), Maricopa County
- A challenging, desert foothills ride
along a thickly-wooded stream best describes this trail.
The best part is the swimming holes located along the
stream. Get back far enough and you'll have them to
yourself! This trail was featured in the August, 1998
BIKE magazine "8 Summer Swimming Hole Rides" as
Trail #4. We like to refer to it as the Cave Creek Trail.
To make a this trail more interesting and add about 1200'
of elevation gain, take Trail 264 (Skunk Canyon Trail) up
from Trail 4 toward Skunk Tank and come back on Trail 274
(Skull Mesa Trail). Or, if you prefer, take 274 to Skunk
Tank and 264 back to Trail 4 (and the Cave Creek swimming
holes). Trail 264 up is much steeper (all 1200' in about
1.5 miles). Trail 274 spreads the elevation over about 5
miles. The bonus is on Trail 264 where you skirt the
hillside looking at Skunk Creek about 300' below you!
Just head out on Trail 4 and watch for the signed
junctions. Don't worry if the trail seems a little rough
- it gets much worse.
To get there, just head way North of Scottsdale. That's
it. Keep going. A little further. I said WAY north. Past
Carefree. Ask someone. If they don't know, try heading
through Carefree on Cave Creek Road. Where's Carefree? An
easy way to get there is to head north on I-17 and take
Carefree Highway (of Gordon Lightfoot fame) east. Head
north on Cave Creek Road (or continue east to Tom
Darlington Road - AKA Scottsdale Road - and turn north to
Cave Creek Road). At the Bartlett Lake Road turnoff,
continue straight - the sign should say "Seven
Springs Campground" or something similar (signs
change). This road is also part of the Great Western
Trail. After a few miles, the pavement ends. It can be
rough, but people seem to make it to Seven Springs in
their cars OK. Head past the campgrounds to get to the
trailhead parking.
- Spruce Mountain Trail #307, Prescott
- Great climb (a little over 1300') and
great downhill (a little too short). Had a couple of good
crashes on the downhill. This 9-mile loop is great -
expect for the usage. Need to remember IMBA's Rules of the Trail on this one!
We started at 8:00 am and there was only one other car in
the lot. By the time we got back, the lot was full! Many,
many horse trailers. This is straight south of Prescott
on the old Senator Highway. Use the Prescott National
Forest map you bought for the Lake Pleasant to Crown Kink
ride.
Other Rides Anywhere
- Amasa Back, Moab, UT
Darn near a "three biker", but
it's all 4wd roads. There's at least one good pucker
point on the climb - a good trailside view of Jackson
Hole. There are many good side viewpoints. This one is
southwest of Moab about 5 miles out of town, so you can
hit this one right from the big city itself. Here's a photo along the trail.
- Bartlett Wash Slickrock, Moab, UT
No where in particular to go, but tons of
bowls, dips, steps, jumps, and other great slickrock
formations! It'll take a while to get to this one - it's
a bit off of the beaten path. But it's worth it. Ask for
directions from one of the bike shops in Moab. Better
yet, get a good topo map and find it yourself. The
written directions we had weren't even close, but the
topo map was right on.
- Boeing, Everett, WA
Some real cool,
illegal single track tucked in between Puget Sound and
Boeing's massive Everett facility. It's surprising how
nice the trails are and how many mountain bikers use
them. There are several descriptions of this trail on the
internet, but by all means, do not park at the Boeing
Recreation Center unless you are a Boeing employee or
affiliate. I've heard of bike confiscation - don't know
if it's true. Don't care to find out.
- Brighton State Recreation Area, MI
Fun but short, fairly easy single track in
southeast Michigan. The loop is only about seven miles,
so it's OK for a quick ride. Nothing too technical, just
some twisty trail through the woods.
- Chequamegon National Forest, WI
Fun, fast, rolling, northwoods - all describe
this trail system in the Chequamegon (She-quam-a-gone or
Sha-wam-agon or She-wanna-be-gone, depending on who you
ask) National Forest in northern Wisconsin. Perhaps
you've heard of the Chequamegon
Fat Tire Festival? There are six "clusters"
totaling over three hundred miles of marked trails! Some
single-track, mostly two-track, even a little pavement,
but always fun.
The best clusters are the Namakagon, which has the Rock
Lake trail, and the Cable, which is easily accessed from
downtown Cable, WI. Rock Lake has a good share of single
track, and the trails from Cable access the telemark ski
trails with limited single track.
- Clinton Lake, KS

This trail was fun. For about five miles. Then it got
old. Spiders. Hundreds of them. Webs crossing the trail
every few feet. Spiders on the bike. Spiders on the
cloths. Spiders inside the helmet. I'm not an
arachnophobic, but I really didn't pay much attention to
the trail! This is where I finally learned to do a decent
wheelie. I had to - it was the only way to knock down the
webs!
- Hermosa Creek, CO
When asking the locals
for the best trail in the Durango area, there was a lot
of "Gee, that's a tough one. There are so
many". When mentioning the Hermosa Creek trail, the
universal reaction was "that's a classic!". I
agree. This is a great introduction to Colorado mountain
biking. From the top of Purgatory Ski Area to Hermosa,
CO, is 30 miles of just about everything. Fast fire road
descents, wide creek-side single track, narrow hard-pack
single track, curvy blacktop (to cool down on), moderate
climbs. Yes, just about everything you could want in a
single stretch of trail, and the bonus is it's mostly
down! This one requires a car shuttle (or paying one of
the locals), so it does require a little pre-planning.
- Lewis River Trail, Mount St. Helens, WA
I saw this trail in a "best of"
article a few years back and have been thinking of it
ever since. I was not disappointed. This is 80% buff easy
single track through old-growth forest. Really nice. The
other 20% isn't too bad - some steepish ups and downs.
It's about 10 to 11 miles one-way, but it's well worth
the out-and-back. It's right next to Mount St. Helens, so
there's a nice side trip when the riding is done.
- Minnesota River Park, Minneapolis, MN
Actually, this one was fun! The trail
follows the Minnesota River on the south side of
Minneapolis and joins with the Mississippi. The woods are
thick, and the mosquitoes aren't too bad (unless you
stop!). Winding single-track with moderate climbs up the
river banks and many plank bridges made this a good
afternoon trip. We did 16 miles and barely made a dent in
the trail system! Too bad there are only four months
recognized in Minnesota: June, July, August, and Winter.
- Moab Rim Downhill, Moab, UT
1000' of slickrock downhill in under 1.5
miles. Sick. Not so much for the trail - there's plenty
of traction. It's just that if you miss a turn, much like
most Moab trails, you can find yourself taking a quick
trip to the valley floor - through the air! I like to go
fast downhill, but I don't see myself racing this anytime
soon.
- Porcupine Mountains, MI
This place has
a lot of potential, but for now it's just that -
potential. Most of the mountains are a state wilderness
area, but the ski hill is open to bikes. There isn't much
in the way of trails, just pick your way. It's better
than nothing, but not much.
- Porcupine Rim, Moab, UT
What's not to like about 3000' of descent
over 10 miles of awesome Moab trails? After a 900',
3-mile climb of easy 4wd roads, you are treated so some
of the best views, great high-speed double- and
single-track, and sphincter-tightening cliff-side trails.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! Here's a photo
from the top.
- Potowanami Trail, Pinckney, MI
This trail showed up in USA Today as the
best trail in the Midwest. I'm not sure it's up to the
coveted "three-biker" rating, but it's still a
pretty good trail. Short, somewhat steep climbs help keep
it technical. Deep sandy sections keep it interesting.
17.5 miles of buff single track through thick forest keep
it on the list of trails to do again someday!
- Slickrock Trail, Moab, UT
Com'on now! Do I really need to describe
this one? Slickrock has got to be the all-time
"classic" ride. Just make sure you don't run
out of water if you attempt this one in the summer (yes,
I speak from experience - twice!). Here's a photo from along the
trail.
- Tiger Mountain, WA
This was a
early-season trip into the hills outside of Seattle, WA.
What a trip! Great muddy single-track, typical Washington
forests, and hardly anyone else on the trail.
Here is a mini photo album of that
ride!
- VTT Park, Aragon, France
This one isn't anywhere close to Arizona. It
sure was a fun trail, though. France has a system of
mountain bike (VTT) trails that are very well marked and
maintained. I had the opportunity to try the one at
Aragon, in Southern France. The trails consists of a
series of single-track trails and roads that wind up over
650 meters (that's over 2000 feet for us English-system
users), through alpine forest and Medieval countryside
towns. The loop was about 50 kilometers (30 miles), but I
added several more checking out the villages, ancient
ruins, and other sights. Great fun!
Here is a mini photo album of
that ride!
- Windsor Trail, Santa Fe, NM
Just north of Santa Fe, New Mexico, is a
popular mountain biking area. The Windsor trail was my
favorite. There is a good hill climb, followed by a great
downhill run. Good woods. Good single track. Good fun.
Good grief! Too many weenie looser car shuttle downhill
racer wanabees! Oh well, I ride the lift to the top of
the hills at Sunrise Ski Resort, so I guess I shouldn't
complain.

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