"I remember a Waltons riff I did at the end of 'Dueling Ranches,' where everyone said goodnight to each other until it was Vic's turn, and he said 'Shut up, son.' My finest moment in TV!"

-- Mark Cerulli, Hey Dude writer

I guess one can argue without end what makes Hey Dude click as a series. There were the appealing cast members, the idyllic setting, and the loving production values. But, for me, it was the writing. Hey Dude would be nothing without the clever dialogue, the consistent and rich characterization, and the imaginative adventures at the Bar None. In its context as a light, juvenile comedy, the stories--and the details and continuity within the stories--were consistently brilliant. I'll argue with anyone that Hey Dude's writing is as good as you'll find.

Mark Cerulli was a member of this talented ensemble of writers. During his tenure, he wrote five episodes, including "Rainmen," "Dueling Ranches," "Killer Ernst," "They're Back," and "Doghouse Blues." Cerulli seemed to specialize in sports and the Vlecks, but (as you'll see) perhaps that was due more to happenstance than design.

After Hey Dude, the 38-year-old Manhattan native moved on to Hey Dude's early era Nickelodeon counterpart, Clarissa Explains It All. He then went on to co-produce the documentaries The Making of Goldfinger and The Making of Thunderball for MGM/UA and Eon Productions. Cerulli was also an early writer that pitched Halloween 7 before it became Halloween H20: Twenty Years Later. In the same vein, he last year produced and directed a video documentary on the original Halloween (you can read a review in the genre magazine, Fangoria). Cerulli's current project is an HBO action thriller titled Wetworks.

I called Mark at his HBO office in Manhattan and had a very pleasurable conversation with him. Ten years does something to everyone's memory, but it was a kick hearing him recall favorite Hey Dude moments as they were related to him. As Hey Dude fans, Mark deserves our gratitude for letting us in on his behind-the-scenes take, and a huge personal thanks from myself.

Friday, May 5, 2000

Why don't you tell us a little about yourself?

I'm originally from Manhattan, and I went to Syracuse University. I majored in advertising, actually, but I really enjoyed writing. My father was a jazz writer. He wrote for Down Beat Magazine--he was an editor at Down Beat, actually--and stuff like that, so I'd always been around writing. So I got out of school and I just began writing scripts, really. First I worked in a mailroom for a while (chuckle), and then I began working at MTV. And one of my bosses over there, actually my first boss, was a guy named Alan Goodman. I think he was a producer on the show. I can't remember what his exact title was. But when Hey Dude got going he got me involved as one of the writers. I've always been very grateful to Alan for getting me involved.

Apparently Alan Goodman was pretty influential with the program's direction. A lot more than I thought--I thought he was just a writer.

One of the things I learned from him was that you can always tell what a character's motivation is by what the character wants. This is going back a number of years...I can't remember what exactly each character on the show wanted, but it made a lot of sense.

Was it tough writing for a series where you had to juggle five or six characters at one time?

No--I remember they were really focused on the writing. They spent a lot of time. I did a number of rewrites on my scripts, that kind of thing. Graham Yost was the story editor.

What are your favorite movies and TV shows? What were your influences?

My influences were mainly action movies, horror films, and things like that. I'm a huge James Bond freak. I had produced with Lee Pfeiffer a couple of James Bond documentaries back in the mid '90's. So growing up, those were my big influences, the Bond movies.

What did you do right after Hey Dude?

Clarissa Explains It All. Alan again was one of the producers on Clarissa, I believe, and he got me in. I wrote one episode of Clarissa. And I was a copy writer at HBO, and now I'm a writer-producer. I've got a script in development at HBO. It's an action thriller called Wetworks.

When was the last time you saw an episode of Hey Dude?

Ah, man, it's gotta be years. I was flipping the channel, and I think one of the episodes I had written was on. I always try to watch a little, but...

So Alan Goodman got you involved in Hey Dude?

Yeah. I worked with an executive named Brown Johnson. She was instrumental in the show. They had a couple of directors, and I met them when I went out to the set. I only went out once. Graham was out of in LA, but I can't remember all the other writers, but most of them were here (in New York). I remember where we'd have a few meetings where I'd go and we'd all sit around the table, and get assignments. Talk about things, that kind of thing.

Was there any kind of a writer's guide or bible that told you who the characters were, etc.?

Yes, I seem to remember there was. I think it might have been written by Dee LaDuke. She created Hey Dude.

Are you aware of any of the circumstances surrounding her departure?

No.

How did you get your story ideas or assignments?

One of the episodes, somebody else had written and I had to rewrite it. "Dueling Ranches." A lot of the other ones I came up with. The baseball one, I knew nothing about baseball. I mean, I'm not into sports at all. I had a friend who was really into it and I remember, I called him up and asked him (laugh), "How many people are on a team?" and stuff like that. In one scene in the show, you hear one of the characters pretending to be a baseball announcer, and I used my friend's name in there. I just threw it in. He was my sports guru. I think the episode I wrote on Clarissa had to do with Clarissa and her brother going out for the football team, and I know nothing about football.

In what context did you get to visit the set?

Nickelodeon was good that way. At one point they said, we think all the writers should come out and see it. So a bunch of us came out to the Tanque Verde ranch. They put us up and we went on the set, I think, for a day. I think that was it. We got an idea (of what the ranch was like). We walked around. We saw the sets, the cabins, and that kind of thing. They were taping ("Take Me to Your Leader"). I remember we were walking around and all of a sudden we would have to freeze and be quiet while they were shooting.

Do you have any specific thoughts or recollections about the visit?

No, I just remember that it was a small group of people, but everybody was working really, really hard. I remember, they were doing a night shot. Everybody kept taking photos of each other, and finally the director said, "We'll see who's going to take pictures when we're out here at midnight!" So they worked pretty hard.

Was there a lot of pressure on the writers to get work in, or was there always a good backlog of scripts?

I don't recall that there was a huge backlog, but the pressure wasn't really extreme. I remember Alan going over one of my scripts. He just picked it apart and we put it back together, but he's great that way. He's a great editor, a great story editor.

Yeah, you mention Alan's work, and you said earlier that you rewrote a script--was there a lot of rewriting going on? I mean, when you see a writer's name on the end credits, is it really just that writer, or is it more collaborative?

It would be that writer. "Dueling Ranches," with the Vlecks, that I tried to actually--Brown, at one point said, see if you can come up with an idea to turn them into a spin-off series--the Vlecks! So I came up with a proposal for a series called Home, Sweat, Home. It was all about the Vlecks. And I remember, let's make the cover of this thing interesting! So my parents had this big Rottweiler at the time. I dipped his foot in some mud and I put a big paw imprint on the cover, and then I glued--I know I must sound like a whacko--I glued a plastic fork to the front cover and I gave it to Brown Johnson. I guess she got a big laugh out of reading it. She was reading it on a plane! It never went anywhere, but they did come back a couple of times. "They're Back." The "They're Back" episode, right?

Yup, and then there's "Doghouse Blues". I don't know where you got the title for that one!

(Laugh) I made that up!

And then there's the wrestling episode--

Oh, yeah, with Captain Lou Albano. Yeah.

Did you write that script with him in mind?

I think they knew they were going to get him.

When David Lascher left, did that affect any of your scripts in development?

I don't think so. I remember that I did a few after he had left. It's just, his character's not there anymore and this is the new guy. I forget who it was.

Jake.

Yeah!

Did you have a favorite character to write for?

I kind of liked Mr. Ernst. He was kind of wimpy and always trying to sneak out of things. At least that's the way I tried to write him, trying to shirk stuff. I met (David Brisbin) once. I remember, in New York, Brown Johnson and I, and I think Alan Goodman, we went to lunch and he was there. A very nice guy. Very, very nice guy. And I remember when I went to the set--who's the girl that went on to do the Brady Bunch movies?

Christine Taylor.

She was a sweetheart. I remember the first night I was in Tucson, they had a dinner for everybody. We were all there and I didn't know anybody. And I just started talking to her and she was really, really nice.

My favorite was Brad. Remember her?

Kelly? Yeah, oh yeah. After Hey Dude went off the air, a year later, my wife, though we weren't married at the time, we were eating at a diner in Manhattan. She and some guy walked in. (Laughs) It was like, "Oh, hi, Kelly. How are you?" It was pretty funny!

You recognized each other there?

Yeah, she kind of recognized me.

Did you have any personal favorites out of what you wrote?

"Killer Ernst," I kind of liked that one. And I was amazed they actually built a little amphitheater and everything. (Laughs) I always tend to overwrite, like this script that I'm doing now for HBO. It's going to be shot up in Canada. I heard they were going through the script and somebody says, "Jesus, this is like a James Bond movie!" A lot of big sets and stuff. Actually, I'm working now to downsize stuff on it. But it's got more than Hey Dude's budget, that's for sure!

On "Rainmen," there were a lot of Indian culture references, and Robert Morningstar, who played Mr. Satkina, was actually credited at the end for "Indian Culture Authenticity."

I wrote a couple of drafts and he went over them. And, "Oh, no, this wouldn't happen...isn't right..." That sort of thing. I remember they recommended a book. They got me a book and I went through it.

Was that your story idea off the top of your head, or was it assigned?

I think it was assigned. That one came right from Alan. There was like a log line on it and I fleshed it out. What would happen is that I'd flesh everything out into an outline. And then they'd rearrange the outline with me, and from there I'd go into a script.

Do you remember that shower scene with Brad? Did you write that scene?

(Laughs) No, I don't! What was that? What was that?

Well, you don't see anything, of course. But they put the camera underneath the stall, you see here legs there underneath the stall while she's taking her shower. I'm grateful it was gratuitous, but, uh--

Yeah, yeah--that's probably (laughs) pushing the envelope for that series!

I guess credit the director for that one! When you write an episode, and it's finished as far as you're concerned, do you see a lot of changes between what you wrote and what you see on the screen?

Yeah, I think maybe lines here and there. By and large it's pretty much what I wrote. I know that they would have a head writer there who would make changes and stuff like that. Graham (Yost) did that for a couple of years.

Are you a wrestling fan?

No, not at all. Although, a couple of years ago I was trying to get a kids' series off the ground with the WWF. We had a whole bunch of discussions and they comp'd me to one of the Wrestlemanias. And I was stunned that people were so into it.

That one scene in "They're Back" where you have that Frank Spittle character, is that your writing?

Frank who?

Frank Spittle. He complains about the air conditioning being out.

Yeah, the name sounds like something I would come up with. Yeah, I remember writing that.

The character is played as obviously gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. Vleck even calls him a sissy boy.

Oh, that? No! (laughs) That's the talent. No, it was just like a disgruntled guest. Here's a bit of trivia. I picked for the Vleck kids, the sons, the dumbest names I could think of, Carl and Lonnie. And then Graham suggested changing them to Sturm and Drang!

(The reference goes whoosh! over my head, but I chuckle like I get it. Sturm and Drang? Was ist das? It seems like a good point to end the interview before I get bamboozled again.) So, is there anything else you'd like to add about your experiences working on Hey Dude?

It was a lot of fun doing them. I'm kind of amazed that you have a web site on it. I'll have to check it out. How many hits do you get?

Over a billion served. (Well, I wish I said that.)

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